In a new interview with “Reckless” Rexx Ruger of Pod Scum, Vinnie LaBellafounding guitarist of New Orleans-based thrash metal pioneers EXHORDERcited by many as the originators of the riff-heavy power-groove approach popularized by PANTHERspoke about his former band's supposed influence on him PANTHER's decision to move from a power metal act to a more aggressive form of thrash. He said (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET): “Well, let me put it to you this way. I wrote [the EXHORDER song] 'Desecrator' before [PANTERA‘s first album with singer Philip Anselmo], 'Power Metal'was out. I think 'I Am The Night' [the last PANTERA album to feature lead singer Terry Glaze] was going on while I was writing [EXHORDER‘s debut album] 'Slaughter In The Vatican'.
“Look, there's a lot of controversy behind that. And, of course, we're all old and gray, and some of us aren't here anymore,” he continued.
“I've told this story before in other interviews — Phil was actually in EXHORDER for about three hours. And it was my fucking fault because what happened was, I wanna say sometime in '86 we got in a big fight in the band and stuff as usual… So that was the first [EXHORDER] breakup. Oath Kyle [Thomas, EXHORDER singer] swear Chris [Nail, EXHORDER drummer] swear David Mainmy first guitar player with me, left. So it was just me Andy [Villafarra, EXHORDER bassist]. So I grabbed [guitarist] Jay Ceravolo, Sid Montz ten drums. We were all trying to put it back together in the rehearsal space. Oath Sid called me up, and he said, 'Listen, man, I talked to Phil. Phil wants to come and try out for the band.' He wasn't [happy] with things that were going on in Texas, so he wanted to come home and come try it with us. So I said, 'Well, just tell him, 'Come home.' He's got the job.' So he flew in anyway and tried out and shit, did a couple of songs with us. I was, like, 'Dude, you're a fucking killer. Of course you got the job.' So we put him back on the plane back to Dallas, and I went home. And when I walked back into the house, my phone was ringing, and it ended up being Kyle Thomas. And he's, like, 'Listen, man, I wanna come back to the band.' I was, like, 'Motherfucker, I haven't heard from you in a year. I just put fucking Philip on a plane and told him he got the job. He's going home to fucking quit fucking PANTHER.' So I said, 'Let me call you back.' So I called up Jay. I was, like, 'JayI'm in a pickle here.' So he's, like, 'Well, look, man, what do you think is the right thing to do?' So [I said]'The right thing to do is to bring Kyle back and give him his gig back.' Because he's the one we built this house with. I wanted to be loyal, I wanted to do the right thing, and I loved Kyle. So he's, like, 'Well, do what's on your heart to do.' So I called Philip. He was disappointed, of course, but he was also happy that we were getting it back together in its original state. And then Chris ended up coming back, and we had the old gang back together. But now I kick myself in the ass and I go, 'I can't believe I passed on Phil Anselmo for this guy.'”
Asked if he likes the fact that PANTHER is currently touring with a lineup that includes surviving members Anselmo swear Rex Brown (bass) alongside guitarist Zach Wylde (OZZY OSBOURNE, BLACK LABEL SOCIETY) and drummer Charlie Benante (ANTHRAX),Vinnie said:
“At this moment, yes, because when you're 50-plus years of age, it's not like this is gonna set the world… You're not trying to rebuild the fucking wheel. This is for your legacy. This is to give something back to the fans that were loyal to you back then and the ones that never got a chance to see you EXHORDER. We've been around for so fucking long, people were just so happy that we came back and the people who have heard us for the first time, and old folks, man, they're bringing their fucking kids and shit. So I kind of equated it to the same thing. Look, I don't care if you go Benante swear Zach… I mean, who else are you gonna go? I mean, those guys are top notch. So I thought it was cool. Now, in my opinion, if they put out new music under that banner, I would probably not be a fan of that — unless it blows away everything else you did before. That's tough to do, man. Unless you can get in the fucking time machine and get your ass back to the '80s and have that teenage angst. We're all different people now. But I was cool with it, though. I was, like, this will be good. And it's good for metal. I mean, as much beef as we had back in the day over the who-came-first thing and the media with all of that bullshit, they were great for metal back then; they kept everybody on the map. And it's good for metal today, man.”
This past February, Kyle was asked by the “Scars And Guitars” podcast if he still gets questions about the fact that EXHORDER played a more extreme form of metal a few years ago PANTHER adopted a similar musical approach. Kyle said: “Every once in a while I meet somebody who feels the need to pull me aside and tell me how important it is that they tell me that they think that we were before PANTHER. Like, whatever. And I always try to take it and deal with it in the most polite way possible 'cause people aren't saying that necessarily to incite me in some kind of way; usually they think they're telling me something that I'd like to hear.”
Referencing the fact that PANTHER is currently touring with Anselmo swear Brown alongside Wylde swear Benante, Kyle said: “I think there's room in this world for both bands. I think it's a good thing PANTHER is back in business. I think it's good for hard rock and heavy metal, and the more, the merrier. They worked extremely hard — a lot harder than we did — for their success, and who cares whether the chicken or the egg came first. To me, they're both delicious.
“I've been friends with Phil for a long time,” he continued. “I always got along nicely with Darrell [late PANTERA guitarist ‘Dimebag’ Darrell Abbott] swear Rex. That platinum record on the wall right there was a gift from Phil for 'Driven Far Beyond'presented to me and my band PENALTY at the time, which became FLOODGATE. It was just his way of basically saying, 'Hey, thanks, man.' And I know what he meant. We were a big influence on him personally, and he returned the favor by spreading our demos around to people and turning people on to us. He was, at one time, probably the biggest cheerleader this band ever had.”
Thomas previously discussed the comparisons between EXHORDER swear PANTHER in a November 2022 interview with Heavy Culture. At the time, he said:PANTHER had an evolution. Early, they were kind of glam-ish, and I don't know if necessarily the music was as glam as maybe the appearance. But a lot of heavy metal bands… I mean, I played in heavy metal bands before I was in EXHORDER where I wore the spandex pants and black eyeliner. We all kind of did at some point — not everybody, but some people did. A lot of the thrash bands we love today — SLAYER, DESTRUCTION — they wore makeup and leather and spiked wristbands and stuff.
“PANTHER were very good before even, before Philip Anselmo joined them. They were very good and well established at what they did, a very hard-working band. Now, Phil is from New Orleans, like we are. We've known each other since we were teenagers. We've been friends for a very long time. In fact, that platinum album on [my] wall back there was a gift from Phil. That's for [PANTERA‘s] 'Far Beyond Driven' [album]. So, we've been friends for a long time.
“I think a lot of the controversy was media- and fan-driven more than anything,” Kyle explained. “For me, I was friends with Darrell as well. I've been friendly with Rex a long, long time. I've known these guys for years.
“Were we doing what they ended up doing before they were? In a way, there were things that we were doing that they eventually did and we were doing them first. But that doesn't necessarily mean, I think, that there was any kind of blatant rip-off or anything.
“Phil almost joined EXHORDER for a minute,” Thomas said. “The band was reforming and I wasn't interested, so Phil was asked by the band if he wanted to sing, and he said yes. And when I found out Phil wanted my job, I took my job back. [Laughs] That's kind of how that went.
“There were a lot of bands interested in Phil at the time. I know METAL CHURCH was interested in Phil. So I think he went to the guys PANTHER and he was, like, 'I'm really interested in doing something a little bit more than what we're doing right now. So y'all hear me out.' And I think they just kind of hashed it out.
“I know we were one of… We're still one of Phil's favorite bands,” Kyle added. “He's told me this before, and people I know tell me the same thing. I know he's a huge fan, and he helped us tremendously build the underground in the Dallas/Fort Worth area when he was living out there with the PANTHER guys just building all that stuff.
“It's a frustrating thing to me, because I guess it's kind of like the poor man's version of METALLICA vs MEGADETH,” Kyle concluded. “I don't think it needs to be that big of a conversation anymore. Basically, we've reformed back in 2017, and we're still going strong, about to do our second album in that timeframe. And they're [PANTERA] putting some shows together with some friends to bring the band and songs back to life, which I think is a great thing. So there's room for both.”
Back in 2013, Anselmo denied that EXHORDER was a major influence on PANTHER's sound, telling Examiner.com: “It's absolutely untrue. EXHORDER was a killer band, don't get me wrong. And for their time in the local scene in New Orleans in 1988, as far as skill level, they really upped the game for everyone. To this day, I'm still really good friends with their singer, who is now the singer for TROUBLE. Kyle and I come from the same school of heavy metal vocals — Rob Halford, Don Doty from DARK ANGELoath Tom Araya — so there are similarities between us, but musically, I don't hear it at all.”
In a 2007 interview with Midwest Metal, Kyle addressed the possibility that EXHORDER inspired PANTHER's more aggressive early 1990s approach, saying: “The thing I hate most of this topic is just how handcuffed we are to their success. Did they rip us off? Possibly. Was it deliberate? Maybe. Were they influenced by us? Definitely. Did they work a helluva lot harder than we did? Absolutely.”
Thomas is now the sole remaining founding member of EXHORDERwhich parted ways with LaBella in February 2020.
EXHORDER's fourth full-length album, “Defectum Omnium”came out in March via Nuclear Blast Records.
Joining Thomas in the band's current lineup are former CANNIBAL CORPSE guitarist Pat O'Brienwho made his live debut with EXHORDER at the 2022 Maryland Deathfestbassist Jason VieBrooks and drummer Sasha Horn.